You’re exactly right. It’s not that I don’t want it to work, I would love for it to. But what you’re suggesting isn’t new. They’ve done it before and they’ll do it again.
Also there alot of bots going around Reddit saying the protest is not working and all the subreddit mods are going to be easily replaced, with who I don’t know.
Well, on Beehaw you cannot create new communities, but you certainly can be made a mod of one even from another instance. Find the ones you want and ask the current mods of it.
The tl;dr is that having many communities make it difficult to govern and ensure a safe space exists for the overall community and having too many can result in highly fragmented discussions that would be a challenge to grow and nurture organically like we do in the physical world.
It’s not that we don’t permit new communities, but more towards we moderate their creation based off the communities interests.
Actually if its not changed most subs will go down indefinitely because moderation will get 3 times more time consuming (at least) and the default subs will need a team of people working in shifts 24/7 without ever interrupting.
This is what I want to see. When admins forced a sub to reopen I would think the volunteer mods won’t maintain it, it will slowly crumble. Volunteer mods has a better motivation to maintain the sub they love than a paid employee.
Maybe Spez is right (obligatory fuck /u/spez comment), but this blowout also brought Lemmy and other similar sites to the limelight. We’re on the stage where we early adopters are testing the waters, it’s just a matter of time until a new competitor stands above the others and Spez’s Reddit irónico s going to have to eat those words.
a lot of people back on Reddit could not give less of a shit about the issues and just want their content; they even see this as just mods powertripping again
it’s kind of annoying to see that, tbh, even if I sort of get it
they could easily have their cake and eat it too by signing up to lemmy. There are a lot of instances out there and they could make their own if none fit.
but that’s not immediate and requires some work and effort (to figure out how federation works, to figure out how Lemmy works, to learn how to create an instance and to make one, to start over with an entirely new community); many on Reddit want the easiest path to get their content
which again, understandable, but still annoying to see
Perhaps… but once a certain amount of people left DIGG for reddit back in the day, the whole thing quickly fell apart. I mean, yea, DIGG still exists and I assume there are people who still use it, but I’ve never met one since I left it about 15 years ago.
Its not like the API issue is the only reason, much less the main reason people want to leave reddit. A lot of people have been wanting to do it for a long time now, it is only that there haven’t been any other options with a crowd big enough to hold a conversation beyond only a few people. There is a big chance that that is now changing.
I haven’t seen that. Everyone seems to be rather upset about Apollo, RIF, Relay, etc. The only person I’ve seen suggesting power tripping mods is u/spez.
Why would that be annoying? It means the strike is working, it does exactly what it is meant to do. If the consumers don’t find content, they will ultimately move elsewhere
And if there are enough power users (lots of comments, posts) like me who feel the same, it will have an impact.
There’s a HUGE middle ground between “nothing changes” and “reddit goes out of business.” As we see with Twitter, you can have a zombie platform that persists but slowly loses inertia month after month.
It’s not that Reddit dies abruptly. It’s that the platform is wounded now and, without attention, will bleed out slowly over many years.
At a communications conference last week, a Bloomberg reporter told the attendees that most tier 1 journalists are looking for stories on LinkedIn now instead of Twitter. It’s gone from vital to junk in just a few months. Without its moderators, Reddit faces the same fate: lots of activity, but most of it junk.
Its not the loss of moderators, its the loss of content. If reddit hadn’t changed their original self moderation model this couldn’t happen. Or at least, not like this.
Moderators are not responsible for making content, they just moderate a sub where others create content. Originally users moderated content on their own.
Pretty funny how reddit’s move to authoritarianism has worked against them this time.
My goal is to hurt Reddit’s IPO to prevent a capitalisation on the platforms recent string of real world impacts, such as the Game Stop short squeeze and the intelligence leak that happened on a Discord server.
I don’t care if Reddit’s CEO caves in, just so long as Reddit doesn’t get the large influx of capital to prevent the corporation from achieving any larger impact like Twitter and Facebook did in their respective times.
The secondary marketplace to sell your Reddit accounts to bot farmers is very active, accounts are being bought at upwards of $200.
The social bots work just fine inside reddit’s
Infrastructure without 3rd party apps and/or API data.
Reddit is going to be just another Twitter for the 2024 US election, where the conversation is managed and directed by bots, but pro-democracy based. When that becomes known Wall Street will act accordingly and Reddit won’t be worth much…
Problem is it will work lul. Just read some comments in some subs that are restricted like the Star Wars one. Kinda sad to see people bend over so easily only because they cannot post in their sub for a few days. Like, geez doesn’t matter at all what % of people use 3rd party apps. A little bit of inconvenience doesn’t kill anyone and it’s good to stand up for stuff like this as well.
Keep in mind that Reddit is running a propaganda campaign to try to squash the blackout. Notice most of the comments are almost exactly the same. As we saw with Trump, all it takes is a few well placed comments to stir up dissent and get people to parrot dumb talking points. Reddit can easily manipulate votes and comments to make it look like most people don’t care, but obviously they do, because there was the biggest blackout I’ve seen on a social media platform ever.
I’m sure they do but I have no doubt a ton of people also simply are in the typical “I don’t care, it doesn’t affect me directly but the subs going dark does so it’s bad” mode as many are with lots of things these days sadly.
Hey folks. Looks like I let this one get by so I’ll leave it since there’s already some discussion happening, but for the next few days please try to keep discussion of the Reddit situation in the megathread.
WTheRtRevKaiser - you didn’t post a link to the ‘megathread’ - I’m not sure I know where that is. Sorry… I need a tutorial for every suggested action ;)
Sorry about that, I’ve been away from the computer for a bit. For future reference if we have a megathread about a big event like this, it will most likely be pinned at the top of the relevant community. This one is pinned at the top of !Technology here: https://beehaw.org/c/technology
The community literally has reddit by the balls, and are just gonna let go by ending to so early. Good thing at least some are permanently shutting down
But like, I feel like the one thing that would work is the one thing no one has been talking about.
A mod strike!
Maybe it has been suppressed because it would seem too radical but like, if the communities are going to die anyways might as well go out with a bang. Mods should all go on strike and spammers can run free and burn the site to the ground. That’s basically what happened with Twitter, right? Has Spez seen what has happened to the valuation of Twitter this past year or what?
I went on Reddit during the blackout and on the front page there were shitty tattoos of bdsm furries with their dick and balls out… If the front page could all turn into that and the enforcement of NSFW tags was lost due to lack of mods, I can’t imagine that the shareholders would be happy about what the site has become.
Mod + user direct action - everyone should post spacedicks/porn and mods should refuse to enforce the rules. Reddit wants to destroy the mods? Then reddit should see what a world without mods on the internet actually looks like… Especially before the IPO. Plus, the internet can get VERY active when it comes to participating in mischief instead of watching things slowly fall apart. I’d upvote spacedicks for the cause.
I have no idea why no one is talking about this unless posts/comments like that are being suppressed. Since it seems like most 3rd party apps have the best mod tools and most mods won’t keep up their work if they don’t have the right tools, the end result will be the same anyways.
Mods are basically the slave labour that make Reddit profitable and allows for its existence.
The exploit is taking superuser’s hobby or specialty and getting them to work 24/7 in an permanent unpaid internship position that doesn’t run counter to labour laws.
No one wants to upset that tenuous (and likely quasi-illegal) system of exploitation by empowering the mods to know that they can make changes by organising or going on strike.
Neither Reddit executives nor the protesting app developers and other API data users have the actual interests of reddit superusers at heart.
Reddit wants to destroy the mods? Then reddit should see what a world without mods on the internet actually looks like… Especially before the IPO
To be fair… reddit was originally designed to be self-moderated by the users… and it use to work really well. It would be a miracle if they moved back to that model and I would no doubt switch back to them from lemmy if they did. Those were the hey days of reddit and the internet as a whole.
Removed by an admin or another mod? There aren’t really enough details in that story to know exactly what happened. It also seems strange that it says the sub went public briefly and then back to private. That doesn’t really sound like an admin forcibly stopping the blackout.
I feel like subs being forced public is a real possibility as things continue on, but I’m not sure this is a good example of that.
If they tried to hire enough mods to do a quality job of it they’d be bankrupt by the end of the year. I don’t know if they’ll have enough capable volunteers for a significant fraction of the subreddits.
True, although the way things are going, some instances don’t have the mod capacity right now. Lemmy needs more moderators and moderation tools as people move to the service. https://beehaw.org/post/567170
And I’m sure the new mods being installed will have an even stronger alignment with Reddit’s philosophy and direction which will only make life in that place more hellish.
wish sub’s would announce migrating to Lemmy instead, maybe reddit would start to listen. based on the memo spez sent out looks like they are waiting for it to blow over. 48hrs a week, whatever. they are playing the long game so should we
Oh nice! I’m gonna have to follow them on here too- now I just need other subs for my interests (cars, aquariums, etc) and shitposting sites (dccirclejerk, batman arkham) to make their way here
Does anybody know yet if you are allowed to criticize startrek on those communities? I had a major problem with /r/startrek in that you couldn’t say anything less than glowingly positive or you were banned. Like, not even about the whole woke bullshit, you couldn’t even say the writing was below par - banned.
I just wanna talk about startrek, both the good and the glaringly bad lol.
You could always criticize them, you just couldn’t be lazy about your criticism.
I’ve many times talked about the inconsistency in character development, the trend to “give backstory and then kill a character,” and the absolutely nauseating camera movement (especially in the early seasons) of Discovery, for example. Never even got a warning, nor my posts removed.
There was a major thread like a year back talking about how in Disco, the actors don’t actually move about a scene when they do things. The movement is from room to room, and then they are stuck in place as they talk and it really throws you out of it.
Edit: In fact, there’s literally a post critiquing season 4 of Discovery right now on their front page with healthy discussion in the comments.
Disagree. I was banned from there when they signed on with the brigade to get /r/nonewnormal banned. My offending post? “Et tu, /r/startrek?” (Off topic - so much for Reddits rules against “brigading.”)
That was it. And it was in that thread (so it was on topic.) And I watched others get banned in the same thread for literally quoting from the TNG episode “The Drumhead.” So I found alternate startrek subs and saw the influx of other users who were banned from the main sub for mild criticism (with receipts). Then watched those subs get banned as well for not towing the Paramount line.
I firmly believe that the main ST sub was monitored, if not infiltrated by, Paramount (or a PR/marketing firm hired by them) to halt any negative discussion of the new shows. I watched similar things happen all across Reddit, especially in the larger subs. After being on Reddit for nearly 15 years (since just prior to the Digg migration), that place has changed.
Considering you used “woke” as a pejorative earlier and now you’re ranting about conspiracies involving Paramount (why would Paramount sanction a move to the fediverse where they can’t show ads?) and supporting a sub that was about supporting anti-mask/anti-vaxx nonsense during the beginning of a global pandemic that’s killed ~7 million people since 2020, I really am not even interested in furthering this discussion with you. LLAP 🖖
I really am not even interested in furthering this discussion with you.
Aww, and we were having such a pleasant conversation. That’s ok, I’m going to respond to you anyways, for the benefit of anybody else who comes across this.
Ahem.
Considering you used “woke” as a pejorative
I believe what I said was “woke bullshit.” And I used it as an adjective to describe, specifically, one aspect of a show that you were not allowed to criticize on /r/startrek. Like it or not, you cannot deny that Disco is woke AF. I would personally argue that ST has always been progressive, and in the modern era going woke was the obvious and logical next step for the franchise. Furthermore, it has been criticized for this, rightly or wrongly. But that’s the literal point of a discussion board, to have a discussion. And people are allowed to like different things - that’s ok. They’re even allowed to * gasp * like things that are different than you like, or like things that you don’t like - that’s also ok. What is not ok, IMO, is censoring the conversation because you don’t like it (to a point, please don’t use this as a straw man or slippery slope, let’s keep this on topic). And that’s what was happening on /r/startrek with all the bans.
ranting about conspiracies involving Paramount
“Oh no, he’s ranting! Watch out, he’ll start raving next!” 🙄
Because it makes zero sense that Paramount would keep an eye on the largest message board on the internet dedicated to discussing their flagship product. No sense whatsoever. Crazy talk. And it further makes even less sense that they would want to advertise on the platform hosting that message board, to try and drive traffic towards their subscription service, being buoyed by their flagship product. Complete lunacy. And then to even suggest (gasp!) that they would use those advertising dollars to apply pressure to the platform to quell any sort of negative discussion about their flagship product, well that just crosses a line. I mean, that would never happen, and to suggest otherwise is clearly insane.
why would Paramount sanction a move to the fediverse where they can’t show ads?
Never said they did. I said that my belief is that they were involved to an extent over on /r/startrek. I don’t think they would follow over here, for the reasons you’ve stated. But knowing that the same mods that ran /r/startrek are also running startrek.website is enough to give me pause about what sort of criticism of the brand will be allowed.
Edit: If Reddit dies a miserable death, and startrek.website becomes the de facto startrek message board on the internet, it would be extremely naive to think that Paramount (or their PR/marketing firm) wouldn’t follow the Fediverse. They wouldn’t be able to apply pressure directly like they can/could on Reddit with their advertising dollars, but if I worked for that department I’d get very creative to see how I could exercise control over the content of the community. Just off the top of my head, first thing I’d do is to offer a job to one of (if not all of) the moderators - “We’ll pay you $ to make your community look like this. Welcome aboard!” Hell, maybe that’s simply all they did on Reddit in the first place - no need to pressure the platform when you can simply buy the mods. (I’m not saying that’s what happened, I’m simply thinking out loud. 🤷♂️)
and supporting a sub that was about supporting anti-mask/anti-vaxx nonsense
It was a sub dedicated to vaccine hesitancy, vaccine-induced injuries, and vaccine mania (“take the vax or lose your job!”). And Covid vaccine injuries are very fucking real. I’m old enough to remember the last time a vaccine was rushed to market, and allllll the problems that caused - there is very good reason to be hesitant this time around. Personally, I believe “you do you” - but the hive-mind hysteria would have none of that. (“Brought to you by Pfizer!” ?)
So that’s ok. I think we’ve both gotten what we needed out of this conversation. You have yourself a wonderful day, I wish you nothing but health and happiness.
Edit: almost forget this gem!
That couldn’t be further from the truth.
To quote Nero: “Don’t tell me that didn’t happen! I watched it happen! It did happen!” Lololol
Whilst we’ve defederated with some of the parties in this chat thread and won’t see this comment, please remember our rule of “Be(e) kind to each other”. It’s okay to have differing opinions and to get heated, but don’t overdo it like what’s happened here.
As somebody who isn’t even a Star Trek fan, I still think a flood of trekkies is infinitely cooler than a flood of white supremacists which have killed similar platforms.
This only proves that you can’t unilaterally migrate a subreddit. That instance currently has ~250 users. I don’t know how active the subs it represents were, but surely they had at least an order of magnitude more active users than that?
Since it’s based around a show, Trek as a whole is in a show lull until Thursday. The folks who normally run the weekly content posts have already migrated over. There has been half a dozen attempts at replacing r/startrek with versions of it not run by that mod team and all have failed to gain traction, so good luck to anyone trying to do that. They run a tight ship and make it one of the more enjoyable subs on the site.
Trekkies have existed in groups in one form or another since Usenet and BBS. Moving to a new technology is nothing new to us.
That being said, 250 users in 1 day (they didnt get it set up and actually open until last night) is nothing to scoff at.
Edit: As of now (2am ET on Wednesday) they’re at 800+ subscribers to the mainsub. That’s-- not bad at all.
You know, I wonder if that was in all seriousness actually part of it, because they do have positive associations with the word federation, and that’s the same effect marketing mainly tries to achieve. Might make people just that little bit more interested in it and more willing to work through any troubles getting used to a new system.
They did! !daystrominstitute@startrek.website is Daystrom. !startrek@startrek.website is the mainsub, and !risa@startrek.website is the meme/shitpost sub!
It’s possible your space isn’t federated with those communities yet? You might need to start the link with searching for them using the !instance@web.site command to force your instance to download their pages first.
This may seem a tad ironic since I’m posting here in the fediverse, but I think we should also be encouraging a variety of alternative, self-hostable options, e.g. Postmill (similar to reddit but not federated), Discourse (more of a classic forum structure but with some modernizations), etc.
Not everyone will want to try to figure out federation/ActivityPub, and that’s okay, because there are more options that folks can spin up. The fediverse, imo, benefits as much from other self-hosted sites as it does from those that connect with it.
There are enough people posting to see a fresh dozen or so posts an hour my Subscribed > New feed and I don’t have a ton of subs, mostly STEM. Honestly a few days ago that was a crazy pipe dream. With this kind of mass threshold passed, we only need to expand the scope/quality of posts and this can be a permanent home that organically draws people to the platform. I think we need a page on the major instances that show the plans and limitations of those hosting the instance and where they need support. Like learning Ruud has a bunch of other federated .world servers and seeing his remarkable ability to handle scale makes me much more confident to be here.
people will have to stick around for this to work though, if the honeymoon period is over and perhaps spez stops being such a knob, people could disappear just as quickly as they appeared
No doubt it will cool off some here, but I like this more and it seems like some others feel the same. I don’t think there will be any going back because it won’t be the same reddit ever again.
undefined> doing my best :) PS how did you quote me?
well if you select text in a comment and then click reply, it comes out like that. I don’t know why it says “undefined” here, must be a javascript bug. Simply copy pasting and prefacing it with a > works fine
I think the big Mastodon push last year has made things a little bit easier for Lemmy. Basic awareness of the fediverse has broken into the mainstream of social media, rather than being a niche interest of Free Software enthusiasts.
Now that Lemmy’s gotten this initial nudge of mainstream support, I’ll be far more engaged here than I ever was on Reddit.
I would be cautious too if I were a sub owner and guiding people to an alternative honestly. Lemmy and Kbin both are relatively unstable right now, even if they are pretty good. Waiting a little to see which instances are more stable and likely to last is a good move before planting people somewhere and making an official replacement sub.
This will be like the YT changes in 2017 only much sharper. The utility of reddit is already dead. The whole point in all of this is to be another mindless zombie platform. The native app and nu(ked) reddit were already like this. Now you won’t be able to search and find anything anywhere on the internet unless you are escorted there by an algorithm.
Eh, this was already the case on Reddit to an extent, but the point is moderators really carried the platform on their backs and if many of them really do leave then Reddit will collapse as a useful platform with actual discussion.
Reddit without niche subs would probably become a aggregate for tiktok, Instagram, and Twitter videos. Which it has been trending towards when it comes to what reddit displays to users as default.
Speaking of: Remember when YouTube was good? When your feed showed you your actual subscriptions, the earlier algorithm was showing you stuff you actually want to see and not 6 late night shows, an ad for YouTube TV, and maybe a decent video essay or two?
That and there is some rapid development for the apps going on right now. Lemmy definitely still needs some UI improvements and has a bunch of little problems which could turn away new users prematurely. So it would be good if there was some advertisement in July when the reddit apps shut down.
Fittingly I had two rewrite this comment and another comment 10 minutes ago because I got errors when trying to send them…
I mean…Reddit was taken offline by subs going private, and they had forewarning this was going to happen. Lemmy is handling a veritable monsoon of new users
This is the main issue I see right now as well. I created my own instance for my account to live on, just so I know it will be there as long as I want it to. But that doesn’t do anything for communities I’m subscribed to that could, potentially, be on an instance that later goes down.
I think communities of similar topics are going to need to coordinate in the long run, and perhaps run their own instance to house their communities. This way the folks running the community and the folks hosting it are one in the same. You’d have instances that mainly house users, and perhaps a community or two. That’s where most folks would have their main account. Then you’d have instances that mainly house content, with few users besides the moderation/admin team(s).
I think what would help is the introduction of multisubreddit equivalent for lemmy and then allowing similar duplicate communities to have the option of linking up with each other so people can subscribe to public multisubreddit.
That is brilliant. A sort of sub-federation within the grander federated instances. Subfeds (you heard it here first!) could feed off of and into each other, so if one instance goes dark it’s community and content are not lost as they’ve been replicated across the Fediverse. Sort of a cross between multisubs and RAID.
How about extending the software so that communities replicate between sets of servers over time? That way, things are more robust even if one server goes down.
I am gonna be honest but instances going down and losing communities could have the same probability as Reddit shutting down Subreddits just because they feel like it.
I understand your concern, but I think it would first be wise to let some communities flourish and look how it holds up in the grand scheme of things.
Well now they have to take over the subs and get new moderators. They won’t just sit there and watch Reddit burn further.
For the 2 days private protest, their comment that it will be over soon was appropriate. As giving an exact time frame allows to know the exact end of it. They could just sit there and wait it out.
Now with the indefinite protest, they have to act. And to get to content onto Reddit again, they will probably be looking for new unpaid strike breakers mods for those subs, so they don’t have to actually hire and pay people to moderate content on their soon publicly traded company website.
Ahead of the Tuesday post, more than 300 subreddits had committed to staying dark indefinitely, SpicyThunder335 said. The list included some hugely popular subreddits, like r/aww (more than 34 million subscribers), r/music (more than 32 million subscribers), and r/videos (more than 26 million subscribers). Even r/nba committed to an indefinite timeframe at arguably the most important time of the NBA season. But SpicyThunder335 invited moderators to share pledges to keep the protests going, and the commitments are rolling in.
A surprising amount of big names there. I figured it would be more obscure/niche subreddits like /r/TaylorSwift, /r/SpaghettiWesterns, or something like that
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@beehaw.org
Rumors, happenings, and innovations in the technology sphere. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
I suspect we’re about to see a lot of mods lose their permissions. Reddit will allow some protest but not at the expense of investors getting spooked.
You’re exactly right. It’s not that I don’t want it to work, I would love for it to. But what you’re suggesting isn’t new. They’ve done it before and they’ll do it again.
Mods need to follow the path of the star trek community. Pick a new home server migrate folks out of reddit. Just going dark is not enough
Also there alot of bots going around Reddit saying the protest is not working and all the subreddit mods are going to be easily replaced, with who I don’t know.
Well if only bots are talking, mods can be bots too. /r/SubredditSimulator will just take over the whole Reddit
Pretty much already there on some subs.
Lemmy is growing but we need to work to make easy to allow reddit mods to setup instances and fund them
I haven’t found many moderator features on Lemmy so far. The community that I created does not seem to have any way of blocking posts.
You should be able to, here’s the mod docs
Thanks!
I am a Reddit mod. Gimme the step-by-step tutorial!
Well, on Beehaw you cannot create new communities, but you certainly can be made a mod of one even from another instance. Find the ones you want and ask the current mods of it.
Why can’t we create communities on here? Do the Beehaw admins specifically restrict this? Thanks, by the way.
We’ve outlined the rationale in this thread: https://beehaw.org/post/140733
The tl;dr is that having many communities make it difficult to govern and ensure a safe space exists for the overall community and having too many can result in highly fragmented discussions that would be a challenge to grow and nurture organically like we do in the physical world.
It’s not that we don’t permit new communities, but more towards we moderate their creation based off the communities interests.
Maybe pick an existing one and help it get off the ground:
If you’re interested, I’d recommend posting in the older one, then requesting it on !community_requests@lemmy.ml
Be mildly competent at computers… or know someone who is and willing to help you.
Either setup your own instance, or find an instance that’s already setup that you like and the owner will let you add stuff to the database…
Start a community…
Read here… https://github.com/rileynull/RedditLemmyImporter
Success! now you’ve migrated your subreddit to lemmy!
(This is a little sarcastic. I’m not good at legit guides. But it is possible!)
Edit: tweaked phrasing… doing this to general public servers would be unlikely.
Well, that is an interesting script. I wonder how many will come across? Maybe they will pull the top 20% or something.
Just wanted to add that not all instances are allowing new community creation, including Beehaw.
Yeah, there’s an edit. Seems not to have propagated back to beehaw. yay for beta!
Don’t underestimate the power of spite.
Actually if its not changed most subs will go down indefinitely because moderation will get 3 times more time consuming (at least) and the default subs will need a team of people working in shifts 24/7 without ever interrupting.
Also the amount of bots is skyrocketing.
This is what I want to see. When admins forced a sub to reopen I would think the volunteer mods won’t maintain it, it will slowly crumble. Volunteer mods has a better motivation to maintain the sub they love than a paid employee.
I would love to see Reddit crumble into spam
If Lemmy ever hits mainstream, the bots will be bad here too.
Nah, most instances have manual approval and you can just block entire instances as a instance…
As much as I do hope this helps, I’m afraid it won’t change a thing: Like all blowups on Reddit, this one will pass as well." -Spez. Seem they will ride out this storm. This have to be permanent to make any changes at Reddit.
Maybe Spez is right (obligatory fuck /u/spez comment), but this blowout also brought Lemmy and other similar sites to the limelight. We’re on the stage where we early adopters are testing the waters, it’s just a matter of time until a new competitor stands above the others and Spez’s Reddit irónico s going to have to eat those words.
a lot of people back on Reddit could not give less of a shit about the issues and just want their content; they even see this as just mods powertripping again
it’s kind of annoying to see that, tbh, even if I sort of get it
they could easily have their cake and eat it too by signing up to lemmy. There are a lot of instances out there and they could make their own if none fit.
but that’s not immediate and requires some work and effort (to figure out how federation works, to figure out how Lemmy works, to learn how to create an instance and to make one, to start over with an entirely new community); many on Reddit want the easiest path to get their content
which again, understandable, but still annoying to see
Perhaps… but once a certain amount of people left DIGG for reddit back in the day, the whole thing quickly fell apart. I mean, yea, DIGG still exists and I assume there are people who still use it, but I’ve never met one since I left it about 15 years ago.
Its not like the API issue is the only reason, much less the main reason people want to leave reddit. A lot of people have been wanting to do it for a long time now, it is only that there haven’t been any other options with a crowd big enough to hold a conversation beyond only a few people. There is a big chance that that is now changing.
Damn, the apathy is strong but I do get it. After all, Reddit was mostly a place for me to deflate and relax or just read things during downtime.
A look at their comment histories might be interesting, to see if they’re the ones contributing content worth reading.
I suspect I can guess the answer.
I haven’t seen that. Everyone seems to be rather upset about Apollo, RIF, Relay, etc. The only person I’ve seen suggesting power tripping mods is u/spez.
Why would that be annoying? It means the strike is working, it does exactly what it is meant to do. If the consumers don’t find content, they will ultimately move elsewhere
But not for me. I’m forever gone.
And if there are enough power users (lots of comments, posts) like me who feel the same, it will have an impact.
There’s a HUGE middle ground between “nothing changes” and “reddit goes out of business.” As we see with Twitter, you can have a zombie platform that persists but slowly loses inertia month after month.
It’s not that Reddit dies abruptly. It’s that the platform is wounded now and, without attention, will bleed out slowly over many years.
At a communications conference last week, a Bloomberg reporter told the attendees that most tier 1 journalists are looking for stories on LinkedIn now instead of Twitter. It’s gone from vital to junk in just a few months. Without its moderators, Reddit faces the same fate: lots of activity, but most of it junk.
Its not the loss of moderators, its the loss of content. If reddit hadn’t changed their original self moderation model this couldn’t happen. Or at least, not like this.
Moderators are not responsible for making content, they just moderate a sub where others create content. Originally users moderated content on their own.
Pretty funny how reddit’s move to authoritarianism has worked against them this time.
My goal is to hurt Reddit’s IPO to prevent a capitalisation on the platforms recent string of real world impacts, such as the Game Stop short squeeze and the intelligence leak that happened on a Discord server.
I don’t care if Reddit’s CEO caves in, just so long as Reddit doesn’t get the large influx of capital to prevent the corporation from achieving any larger impact like Twitter and Facebook did in their respective times.
The secondary marketplace to sell your Reddit accounts to bot farmers is very active, accounts are being bought at upwards of $200.
The social bots work just fine inside reddit’s Infrastructure without 3rd party apps and/or API data.
Reddit is going to be just another Twitter for the 2024 US election, where the conversation is managed and directed by bots, but pro-democracy based. When that becomes known Wall Street will act accordingly and Reddit won’t be worth much…
$200? Is that all?
Problem is it will work lul. Just read some comments in some subs that are restricted like the Star Wars one. Kinda sad to see people bend over so easily only because they cannot post in their sub for a few days. Like, geez doesn’t matter at all what % of people use 3rd party apps. A little bit of inconvenience doesn’t kill anyone and it’s good to stand up for stuff like this as well.
Keep in mind that Reddit is running a propaganda campaign to try to squash the blackout. Notice most of the comments are almost exactly the same. As we saw with Trump, all it takes is a few well placed comments to stir up dissent and get people to parrot dumb talking points. Reddit can easily manipulate votes and comments to make it look like most people don’t care, but obviously they do, because there was the biggest blackout I’ve seen on a social media platform ever.
I’m sure they do but I have no doubt a ton of people also simply are in the typical “I don’t care, it doesn’t affect me directly but the subs going dark does so it’s bad” mode as many are with lots of things these days sadly.
Cool that sites are reporting on it. Maybe that’ll add pressure.
correct.
It will not pass until it is made right.
Hey folks. Looks like I let this one get by so I’ll leave it since there’s already some discussion happening, but for the next few days please try to keep discussion of the Reddit situation in the megathread.
WTheRtRevKaiser - you didn’t post a link to the ‘megathread’ - I’m not sure I know where that is. Sorry… I need a tutorial for every suggested action ;)
Here ya go!
https://beehaw.org/post/531459
Sorry about that, I’ve been away from the computer for a bit. For future reference if we have a megathread about a big event like this, it will most likely be pinned at the top of the relevant community. This one is pinned at the top of !Technology here: https://beehaw.org/c/technology
How do we get to the ‘megathread’ ? I never knew one existed.
The community literally has reddit by the balls, and are just gonna let go by ending to so early. Good thing at least some are permanently shutting down
Apparently the head mod of /r/Tumblr has already been forcibly demodded. A bit weird that Tumblr of all places has been the starting point.
I predicted this but kind of surprised that it happened so fast. I’m guessing this mod won’t allow anything critical of spez.
I predicted forcible demods…
But like, I feel like the one thing that would work is the one thing no one has been talking about.
A mod strike!
Maybe it has been suppressed because it would seem too radical but like, if the communities are going to die anyways might as well go out with a bang. Mods should all go on strike and spammers can run free and burn the site to the ground. That’s basically what happened with Twitter, right? Has Spez seen what has happened to the valuation of Twitter this past year or what?
I went on Reddit during the blackout and on the front page there were shitty tattoos of bdsm furries with their dick and balls out… If the front page could all turn into that and the enforcement of NSFW tags was lost due to lack of mods, I can’t imagine that the shareholders would be happy about what the site has become.
Mod + user direct action - everyone should post spacedicks/porn and mods should refuse to enforce the rules. Reddit wants to destroy the mods? Then reddit should see what a world without mods on the internet actually looks like… Especially before the IPO. Plus, the internet can get VERY active when it comes to participating in mischief instead of watching things slowly fall apart. I’d upvote spacedicks for the cause.
I have no idea why no one is talking about this unless posts/comments like that are being suppressed. Since it seems like most 3rd party apps have the best mod tools and most mods won’t keep up their work if they don’t have the right tools, the end result will be the same anyways.
Mods are basically the slave labour that make Reddit profitable and allows for its existence.
The exploit is taking superuser’s hobby or specialty and getting them to work 24/7 in an permanent unpaid internship position that doesn’t run counter to labour laws.
No one wants to upset that tenuous (and likely quasi-illegal) system of exploitation by empowering the mods to know that they can make changes by organising or going on strike.
Neither Reddit executives nor the protesting app developers and other API data users have the actual interests of reddit superusers at heart.
To be fair… reddit was originally designed to be self-moderated by the users… and it use to work really well. It would be a miracle if they moved back to that model and I would no doubt switch back to them from lemmy if they did. Those were the hey days of reddit and the internet as a whole.
Do you have any source or details? Would love to read about it.
https://wegotthiscovered.com/social-media/reddit-reportedly-removing-moderators-and-forcing-subreddits-to-reopen-to-break-protest/
Removed by an admin or another mod? There aren’t really enough details in that story to know exactly what happened. It also seems strange that it says the sub went public briefly and then back to private. That doesn’t really sound like an admin forcibly stopping the blackout.
I feel like subs being forced public is a real possibility as things continue on, but I’m not sure this is a good example of that.
Also /r/adviceanimals, we’ll see which others
The real question I think is will Reddit retaliate back and forcibly recover communities and install new mods?
If they tried to hire enough mods to do a quality job of it they’d be bankrupt by the end of the year. I don’t know if they’ll have enough capable volunteers for a significant fraction of the subreddits.
True, although the way things are going, some instances don’t have the mod capacity right now. Lemmy needs more moderators and moderation tools as people move to the service. https://beehaw.org/post/567170
It’s already started.
And I’m sure the new mods being installed will have an even stronger alignment with Reddit’s philosophy and direction which will only make life in that place more hellish.
I’m glad I jumped ship when I did.
It makes sense from their perspective but still kinda shitty.
wish sub’s would announce migrating to Lemmy instead, maybe reddit would start to listen. based on the memo spez sent out looks like they are waiting for it to blow over. 48hrs a week, whatever. they are playing the long game so should we
The major Star Trek subs all have. Started their own Lemmy instance (startrek.website) and have their private message directing folks over.
Oh nice! I’m gonna have to follow them on here too- now I just need other subs for my interests (cars, aquariums, etc) and shitposting sites (dccirclejerk, batman arkham) to make their way here
Does anybody know yet if you are allowed to criticize startrek on those communities? I had a major problem with /r/startrek in that you couldn’t say anything less than glowingly positive or you were banned. Like, not even about the whole woke bullshit, you couldn’t even say the writing was below par - banned.
I just wanna talk about startrek, both the good and the glaringly bad lol.
You could always criticize them, you just couldn’t be lazy about your criticism.
I’ve many times talked about the inconsistency in character development, the trend to “give backstory and then kill a character,” and the absolutely nauseating camera movement (especially in the early seasons) of Discovery, for example. Never even got a warning, nor my posts removed.
There was a major thread like a year back talking about how in Disco, the actors don’t actually move about a scene when they do things. The movement is from room to room, and then they are stuck in place as they talk and it really throws you out of it.
Edit: In fact, there’s literally a post critiquing season 4 of Discovery right now on their front page with healthy discussion in the comments.
All of these were allowed before and still.
Disagree. I was banned from there when they signed on with the brigade to get /r/nonewnormal banned. My offending post? “Et tu, /r/startrek?” (Off topic - so much for Reddits rules against “brigading.”)
That was it. And it was in that thread (so it was on topic.) And I watched others get banned in the same thread for literally quoting from the TNG episode “The Drumhead.” So I found alternate startrek subs and saw the influx of other users who were banned from the main sub for mild criticism (with receipts). Then watched those subs get banned as well for not towing the Paramount line.
I firmly believe that the main ST sub was monitored, if not infiltrated by, Paramount (or a PR/marketing firm hired by them) to halt any negative discussion of the new shows. I watched similar things happen all across Reddit, especially in the larger subs. After being on Reddit for nearly 15 years (since just prior to the Digg migration), that place has changed.
I feel your pain. I "and my ax"ed a comment thread on /r/pics and got a ban.
When I went back to it, the entire thread was just deleted comments. Shadow-banned?
When someone finally responded to a plea for an explanation and we tried to discuss the error and a path toward a fix
They just said “I don’t know why but you’re still banned” or so and that was it.
Power-tripping mod shadow-banned everyone in a thread? Some mod whose spelling I corrected, somewhere, projected guilt as wrath? We’ll never know.
That couldn’t be further from the truth.
Considering you used “woke” as a pejorative earlier and now you’re ranting about conspiracies involving Paramount (why would Paramount sanction a move to the fediverse where they can’t show ads?) and supporting a sub that was about supporting anti-mask/anti-vaxx nonsense during the beginning of a global pandemic that’s killed ~7 million people since 2020, I really am not even interested in furthering this discussion with you. LLAP 🖖
Aww, and we were having such a pleasant conversation. That’s ok, I’m going to respond to you anyways, for the benefit of anybody else who comes across this.
Ahem.
I believe what I said was “woke bullshit.” And I used it as an adjective to describe, specifically, one aspect of a show that you were not allowed to criticize on /r/startrek. Like it or not, you cannot deny that Disco is woke AF. I would personally argue that ST has always been progressive, and in the modern era going woke was the obvious and logical next step for the franchise. Furthermore, it has been criticized for this, rightly or wrongly. But that’s the literal point of a discussion board, to have a discussion. And people are allowed to like different things - that’s ok. They’re even allowed to * gasp * like things that are different than you like, or like things that you don’t like - that’s also ok. What is not ok, IMO, is censoring the conversation because you don’t like it (to a point, please don’t use this as a straw man or slippery slope, let’s keep this on topic). And that’s what was happening on /r/startrek with all the bans.
“Oh no, he’s ranting! Watch out, he’ll start raving next!” 🙄 Because it makes zero sense that Paramount would keep an eye on the largest message board on the internet dedicated to discussing their flagship product. No sense whatsoever. Crazy talk. And it further makes even less sense that they would want to advertise on the platform hosting that message board, to try and drive traffic towards their subscription service, being buoyed by their flagship product. Complete lunacy. And then to even suggest (gasp!) that they would use those advertising dollars to apply pressure to the platform to quell any sort of negative discussion about their flagship product, well that just crosses a line. I mean, that would never happen, and to suggest otherwise is clearly insane.
Never said they did. I said that my belief is that they were involved to an extent over on /r/startrek. I don’t think they would follow over here, for the reasons you’ve stated. But knowing that the same mods that ran /r/startrek are also running startrek.website is enough to give me pause about what sort of criticism of the brand will be allowed.
Edit: If Reddit dies a miserable death, and startrek.website becomes the de facto startrek message board on the internet, it would be extremely naive to think that Paramount (or their PR/marketing firm) wouldn’t follow the Fediverse. They wouldn’t be able to apply pressure directly like they can/could on Reddit with their advertising dollars, but if I worked for that department I’d get very creative to see how I could exercise control over the content of the community. Just off the top of my head, first thing I’d do is to offer a job to one of (if not all of) the moderators - “We’ll pay you $ to make your community look like this. Welcome aboard!” Hell, maybe that’s simply all they did on Reddit in the first place - no need to pressure the platform when you can simply buy the mods. (I’m not saying that’s what happened, I’m simply thinking out loud. 🤷♂️)
It was a sub dedicated to vaccine hesitancy, vaccine-induced injuries, and vaccine mania (“take the vax or lose your job!”). And Covid vaccine injuries are very fucking real. I’m old enough to remember the last time a vaccine was rushed to market, and allllll the problems that caused - there is very good reason to be hesitant this time around. Personally, I believe “you do you” - but the hive-mind hysteria would have none of that. (“Brought to you by Pfizer!” ?)
So that’s ok. I think we’ve both gotten what we needed out of this conversation. You have yourself a wonderful day, I wish you nothing but health and happiness.
Edit: almost forget this gem!
To quote Nero: “Don’t tell me that didn’t happen! I watched it happen! It did happen!” Lololol
Whilst we’ve defederated with some of the parties in this chat thread and won’t see this comment, please remember our rule of “Be(e) kind to each other”. It’s okay to have differing opinions and to get heated, but don’t overdo it like what’s happened here.
that would explain why Im suddenly seeing a ton of star trek posts on my federated feed, I mean Id expect some but Ive seen a lot more all of a sudden
LOL That would be me bringing them into the federation LMAO
More star trek fans in the fediverse = awesome, imo. Welcome aboard, and thanks.
As somebody who isn’t even a Star Trek fan, I still think a flood of trekkies is infinitely cooler than a flood of white supremacists which have killed similar platforms.
Star Trek message boards were around since the BBS->AOL/COMPUSERVE/PRODIGY days. No surprise they’re seeking new life… I’ll show my way out.
This only proves that you can’t unilaterally migrate a subreddit. That instance currently has ~250 users. I don’t know how active the subs it represents were, but surely they had at least an order of magnitude more active users than that?
250 users in one day is excellent!
Since it’s based around a show, Trek as a whole is in a show lull until Thursday. The folks who normally run the weekly content posts have already migrated over. There has been half a dozen attempts at replacing r/startrek with versions of it not run by that mod team and all have failed to gain traction, so good luck to anyone trying to do that. They run a tight ship and make it one of the more enjoyable subs on the site.
Trekkies have existed in groups in one form or another since Usenet and BBS. Moving to a new technology is nothing new to us.
That being said, 250 users in 1 day (they didnt get it set up and actually open until last night) is nothing to scoff at.
Edit: As of now (2am ET on Wednesday) they’re at 800+ subscribers to the mainsub. That’s-- not bad at all.
Is it the same mods as /r/startrek?
Yes. It is the same mod team.
Well they uave been familiar with the Federation for very long time.
I see what you did there. Keep doing this here an you will prosper. 🖖
Damn it… yeah take your upvote…
Take your upvote and go.
You know, I wonder if that was in all seriousness actually part of it, because they do have positive associations with the word federation, and that’s the same effect marketing mainly tries to achieve. Might make people just that little bit more interested in it and more willing to work through any troubles getting used to a new system.
I’m sure that subconsciously influenced the decision at least a bit. Plus the whole socialist and “fuck money” attitude in Trek.
And they have made a lemmy based icon already!
That is awesome! how soon until Beehaw is federated with them?
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That’s awesome. Starting a community is cool but starting their own instance is next level.
Hey Trekkies are top nerd, would you expect any less? Godspeed brothers.
I grew up with TNG and it warms my heart that it’s still going strong, we definitely need some of that optimism for the future.
Oh nice I was looking for a good Trek community. Did
/r/tuvixinstitute/r/daystrominstitute move over?They did! !daystrominstitute@startrek.website is Daystrom. !startrek@startrek.website is the mainsub, and !risa@startrek.website is the meme/shitpost sub!
I can’t find startrekmemes did they move over?
Looks like they’re called /c/risa now.
Yeah I figured that out after looking again
How do I get to those from your comment? I clicked them and it just opened Gmail and decided the links were the addresses lol.
Try this, I’m still learning how to link other communities.
StarTrek - Mainsub Discussion
Daystrom Institute - In Depth/In Universe Discussion
Risa - Memes&Shitposting
Frustratingly, your first link there works for me, but the other two return 404s…
It’s possible your space isn’t federated with those communities yet? You might need to start the link with searching for them using the !instance@web.site command to force your instance to download their pages first.
in the search tool of your instance enter !risa@startrek.website and it will find it and start federating it.
Bless you, kind stranger
that’s why we should be spreading the word about the fediverse
This may seem a tad ironic since I’m posting here in the fediverse, but I think we should also be encouraging a variety of alternative, self-hostable options, e.g. Postmill (similar to reddit but not federated), Discourse (more of a classic forum structure but with some modernizations), etc.
Not everyone will want to try to figure out federation/ActivityPub, and that’s okay, because there are more options that folks can spin up. The fediverse, imo, benefits as much from other self-hosted sites as it does from those that connect with it.
There are enough people posting to see a fresh dozen or so posts an hour my Subscribed > New feed and I don’t have a ton of subs, mostly STEM. Honestly a few days ago that was a crazy pipe dream. With this kind of mass threshold passed, we only need to expand the scope/quality of posts and this can be a permanent home that organically draws people to the platform. I think we need a page on the major instances that show the plans and limitations of those hosting the instance and where they need support. Like learning Ruud has a bunch of other federated .world servers and seeing his remarkable ability to handle scale makes me much more confident to be here.
people will have to stick around for this to work though, if the honeymoon period is over and perhaps spez stops being such a knob, people could disappear just as quickly as they appeared
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No doubt it will cool off some here, but I like this more and it seems like some others feel the same. I don’t think there will be any going back because it won’t be the same reddit ever again.
doing my best :) PS how did you quote me?
undefined> doing my best :) PS how did you quote me?
well if you select text in a comment and then click reply, it comes out like that. I don’t know why it says “undefined” here, must be a javascript bug. Simply copy pasting and prefacing it with a > works fine
> like this
which looks
like this
Yes
I think the big Mastodon push last year has made things a little bit easier for Lemmy. Basic awareness of the fediverse has broken into the mainstream of social media, rather than being a niche interest of Free Software enthusiasts.
Now that Lemmy’s gotten this initial nudge of mainstream support, I’ll be far more engaged here than I ever was on Reddit.
I would be cautious too if I were a sub owner and guiding people to an alternative honestly. Lemmy and Kbin both are relatively unstable right now, even if they are pretty good. Waiting a little to see which instances are more stable and likely to last is a good move before planting people somewhere and making an official replacement sub.
This will be like the YT changes in 2017 only much sharper. The utility of reddit is already dead. The whole point in all of this is to be another mindless zombie platform. The native app and nu(ked) reddit were already like this. Now you won’t be able to search and find anything anywhere on the internet unless you are escorted there by an algorithm.
Eh, this was already the case on Reddit to an extent, but the point is moderators really carried the platform on their backs and if many of them really do leave then Reddit will collapse as a useful platform with actual discussion.
Reddit without niche subs would probably become a aggregate for tiktok, Instagram, and Twitter videos. Which it has been trending towards when it comes to what reddit displays to users as default.
Speaking of: Remember when YouTube was good? When your feed showed you your actual subscriptions, the earlier algorithm was showing you stuff you actually want to see and not 6 late night shows, an ad for YouTube TV, and maybe a decent video essay or two?
That and there is some rapid development for the apps going on right now. Lemmy definitely still needs some UI improvements and has a bunch of little problems which could turn away new users prematurely. So it would be good if there was some advertisement in July when the reddit apps shut down.
Fittingly I had two rewrite this comment and another comment 10 minutes ago because I got errors when trying to send them…
I mean…Reddit was taken offline by subs going private, and they had forewarning this was going to happen. Lemmy is handling a veritable monsoon of new users
This is the main issue I see right now as well. I created my own instance for my account to live on, just so I know it will be there as long as I want it to. But that doesn’t do anything for communities I’m subscribed to that could, potentially, be on an instance that later goes down.
I think communities of similar topics are going to need to coordinate in the long run, and perhaps run their own instance to house their communities. This way the folks running the community and the folks hosting it are one in the same. You’d have instances that mainly house users, and perhaps a community or two. That’s where most folks would have their main account. Then you’d have instances that mainly house content, with few users besides the moderation/admin team(s).
I think what would help is the introduction of multisubreddit equivalent for lemmy and then allowing similar duplicate communities to have the option of linking up with each other so people can subscribe to public multisubreddit.
Dude what a great idea I hope that’s on a roadmap
That is brilliant. A sort of sub-federation within the grander federated instances. Subfeds (you heard it here first!) could feed off of and into each other, so if one instance goes dark it’s community and content are not lost as they’ve been replicated across the Fediverse. Sort of a cross between multisubs and RAID.
How about extending the software so that communities replicate between sets of servers over time? That way, things are more robust even if one server goes down.
I am gonna be honest but instances going down and losing communities could have the same probability as Reddit shutting down Subreddits just because they feel like it.
I understand your concern, but I think it would first be wise to let some communities flourish and look how it holds up in the grand scheme of things.
I am guessing their comment would be something like, “FUCK!!!”
No, it would’ve been something along the lines of “A: We are evaluating it at this time for the best approach moving forward”
Well now they have to take over the subs and get new moderators. They won’t just sit there and watch Reddit burn further.
For the 2 days private protest, their comment that it will be over soon was appropriate. As giving an exact time frame allows to know the exact end of it. They could just sit there and wait it out.
Now with the indefinite protest, they have to act. And to get to content onto Reddit again, they will probably be looking for new unpaid
strike breakersmods for those subs, so they don’t have to actually hire and pay people to moderate content on their soon publicly traded company website.Have subs continued to stay blacked out? I have not checked it out since the first day of it.
Yes. For instance, at this time, /r/nba is still blacked out even though the NBA season ended recently, and this week would’ve been its prime time.
Good for them!! Did they make a lemmy instance?
good 💙
A surprising amount of big names there. I figured it would be more obscure/niche subreddits like /r/TaylorSwift, /r/SpaghettiWesterns, or something like that
Surprised nba is joining, from what I’ve heard they’ve been dicksucking spez here more than some admins