It would’ve been very powerful if there was a remote consensus on where to setup shop during/after the blackouts rather than framing them as a wholly temporary thing. I completely understand that that would’ve been tough, but imagine if Lemmy/Beehaw/whatever else was mentioned in all of the Subreddit messages about closures.
It’s rarely talked about, frustratingly. I didn’t find Beehaw through articles or suggestions from people online, which I should’ve been able to do - I just found it because I have a friend into the fediverse space. Pure luck.
Imo the creators of third party apps should be talking about moving to alternatives (not moving their own apps, if they can’t, but just being voices for it).
to be fair, reddit strung them along and made them think it was all smooth sailing until about last week. The devs have to figure out what they even plan to do before they can start announcing plans. And there aren’t any real fully developed apps yet from what I can tell. I think, given some time, these developers may move their apps over or create new apps
There is a mention of the tracker though and the tracker has a link to lemmy :D it’ll get anyone who’s interested in how many sites are down (its not perfect but its something)
I spent a few hours manually deleting all my posts in my subreddit this morning, and changing the name to Deleted. So no going back for me now ;-)
Apart from the attitude, it is just amazing that there was no option for me to just delete my (their) subreddit, even though I’m the creator/owner. I anyway do believe more in the decentralised federated model of social networking.
Absolutely, even without all the reddit drama a decentralised version clearly seems to be the smartest way to go. Reddit is it’s community and I think the ceo lost sight of that.
The subs going dark should have only been half of the protest. Users should have also stayed away from the site but I don’t think that was really coordinated.
The number of new posts didn’t drop much, the comments dropped a bit more but only by like 20%, which isn’t a lot given the amount of subs that went dark. Reddit doesn’t care about subs, they care about users and it seems engagement was still pretty high.
The next protest should be to all users to stop using the site. Drop the users and they’ll start to listen.
I tried to do my part and heavily restricted my visits to the site. I checked the state of my feed and user profiles a select few times but always left almost immediately.
I even redirected my reddit browser bookmark to a local website which acted as a warning wall, just to stop me from my subconsciously opening and browsing the site.
Nobody really knows, but I personally don’t think there were any more bots on Monday than there was a week earlier. It’s a nice story that users dropped with the subs going dark, but I think it might be wishful thinking on our part. To my knowledge there’s zero evidence to suggest that they were mostly bots.
The submissions remaining steady while comments dropped off a cliff is eyebrow raising, however given how much the site struggled to handle so many private subs from a technical perspective, I strongly suspect reddit didn’t really do much ahead of the blackout. I think the steady submissions compared to the decreased comments tell us more about an average day of reddit how many submissions are bot submitted than it tells us about a change in bot behavior that day.
I’m pretty sure none of them thought about that because they’re basically just doing this out of anger. They know it won’t change reddits decision so they want to take it away from all the users that don’t really care about third party apps or mod tools.
I think a lot of them are either going to be support subs (like stopdrinking), or they will be subs asking their users what they should do.
The modcoord subreddit is full of support for continued protest
Has that been confirmed yet? I saw one person saying it was happening, but the comments below proved they were wrong, and then they scratched out their comment and apologized for spreading false info.
It will be interesting to see where things stand in a few days and whether it’s causing ongoing pain to Reddit. I doubt they will comment until and if there’s a risk of ongoing, widespread blackouts.
They are either coming or we’ll have to create them. I see no way forward with Reddit. Anyone who’s for Reddit deserves to stay in that cess pit run by spez now. Bridges have been burnt.
It’s the most valuable for me for sure, and I love everything about it. They’re back but currently restricted. I’m really curious about what is their next step.
Has that been confirmed yet? I saw one person saying it was happening, but the comments below proved they were wrong, and then they scratched out their comment and apologized for spreading false info.
I posted this on a Reddit thread this morning about the effectiveness of the blackouts and what happens next:
Some people have just shut down and will never look back. Some just don’t care and need their Reddit fix. A LOT of comments on these types of threads are Reddit bots/employees trying to run a propaganda campaign to stop the shutdown. Most of the users though (IMO), are probably like me and opened up a Lemmy, Mastodon and Kbin account and are using all of them. Lemmy and Mastodon will continue to grow (2x-3x in the past week) and users will continue to migrate over and spend more time there than here until Reddit feels some pain. Reddit will eventually make some grand gesture like replace the CEO or “compromise” on API pricing, but it will be too late and the glory days of Reddit will officially be over.
The issue is that the momentum to go to other platforms has started. Reddit had their chance to stop it and stay the dominant platform, but the CEO is inexperienced and didn’t know how to handle it. Until a few weeks ago Reddit had no real competition, but Spez fucked up big time and now the blood is in the water.
The Fediverse is a great idea and takes social media out of the hands of corporations and puts it back in the hands of the users (does anyone remember IRC?). It didn’t really have a lot of momentum until now, but its got a LOT of press because of Reddit’s fuck up and now it’s going to be a slow juggernaut sweeping not only Reddit’s market, but Twitter (Elon is just as big a fuckup as Spez), and Facebook.
I would bet $20 that this time next year Reddit will be 50% or less of their market, and several other alternatives will be growing faster than we’ve ever seen platforms grow. Alternative platforms already have the formula for a successful project. Reddit did all the experimentation, now the alts just need to copy the look/feel and features to knock Reddit down to the Digg dungeon.
Billionaires seek to control the media and the narrative, but Fediverse is harder to simply buy and control. Profit seeking corporations will always put profit first, and we’ve seen time and time again that it’s the “product people” that make a company great, and the “business people” who kill it. The capitalists will continue to kill long term growth for short term profits, but Fediverse can’t be killed that way. We’ve just seen the beginning of the new internet revolution.
Something this “blackout” caused me to notice as an individual is just how much of my time and attention I was giving away for free for a faceless corporation to monetize. I quit Reddit entirely and, while still visiting Lemmy/a few forums, I’ve noticed my “Doomscrolling” habit is rapidly dying.
I would bet $20 that this time next year Reddit will be 50% or less of their market, and several other alternatives will be growing faster than we’ve ever seen platforms grow.
I fervently hope this prediction comes true, and the internet becomes a little healthier in the process.
I’d love to turn the subreddit into a mere front to funnle new people onto lemmy or another community forum but I doubt the average user would enjoy that very much 😅 I think we will put it up to a vote, we also did one to determin if we should join the protest in the first place
I’m not sure I agree. I don’t like those two solutions. They basically try to centralize the platform. I think Lemmy is a little confusing at first, but that’s a UX/UI problem and not necessarily a good enough reason to change underlying features of the platform.
I think a user subscribing to communities across instances is a pretty tough technical challenge and it would be very difficult to manage. How are particular communities decided to be a part of a multi-community? Is it voted on? Is there a mod of the multi-community? If so, that could still lead to bifurcation wherein you now have a multi-community that claims to provide all /c/pokemon content across instances but is potentially missing many viable communities on some instances due to things like moderator in-fighting or moderator preferences.
I like how Lemmy allows for sort of duplicate communities. Reddit already had that issue and people naturally flocked to the communities that had the content that suited them. I think it would behoove Lemmy to stay away from trying to centralize it all.
However, I agree that it is confusing. I think this is a UI/UX challenge which needs to be solved. I don’t have the solution, but I think it’s clear that the app language needs to help users naturally feel comfortable living within an instance and moving across instances.
I am open to suggestions and I am fully happy to be proven wrong. But as a software engineer, the second GitHub issue gave me the heeby-jeebies on a technical front. Seemed a little hairy for a young platform to take on right now. I think there are plenty of other lower hanging fruit id prefer for the community to solve:
Building a nice mobile android app Jerboa is pretty good but it needs some TLC. Timeouts happen frequently on my app and crash it/erase content I was reading
Provide better documentation/marketing materials for new users. I’m open to the idea of a centralized website where users can go to create accounts, learn about Lemmy, and maybe initially subscribe to popular communities
All in all though, I feel like Lemmy is totally usable. Actually, the most confusing thing to me was learning that I could see my comments and posts on Mastodon. That threw me through a loop. I still don’t understand Mastodon since the UI - to me - just seems to be random comments. I don’t really have any thread-based context to understand the comments I see on my Mastodon app. So for now I stick to Jerboa.
No, they don’t, I don’t know why you think that, this is really what federation is all about, seamless communication between servers, all they do is make it so that linking to different posts across the fediverse doesn’t log you out, or remove you from your instance unnecessarily
The other one ALLOWS you to categorize subreddits. Neither of these are bad things in any way, and if you don’t like them, you can manually visit other instances, and simply not use the multireddits.
I like how Lemmy allows for sort of duplicate communities. Reddit already had that issue and people naturally flocked to the communities that had the content that suited them. I think it would behoove Lemmy to stay away from trying to centralize it all.
This won’t change anything about that, it’ll just sort them by category
Building a nice mobile android app Jerboa is pretty good but it needs some TLC. Timeouts happen frequently on my app and crash it/erase content I was reading
Provide better documentation/marketing materials for new users. I’m open to the idea of a centralized website where users can go to create accounts, learn about Lemmy, and maybe initially subscribe to popular communities
In case you want to go that route: I made a bot that posts links to posts in a list of lemmy communities to a subreddit, optionally with flair and a comment of what is going on, to be run in a fully restricted subreddit (i.e., no comments show up at all, new posts need to be made via lemmy)
Would it be possible to make the bot post the content of the Reddit posts, instead of links to Reddit, via web scraping? That way we could avoid giving traffic and engagement to reddit.
That won’t change anything. The financial incentives from investors driving this will demand similar policies even if they get redressed in different marketing.
Man, it’s sad to see comments about how this isn’t the end of Reddit. I want one of two things: Either to see Reddit straight up die because the communities stayed down, or for them to be forced to relax their API fees. For me personally, Reddit is straight up dead if I cant use old.reddit or Reddit via Apollo / Relay Pro. I need these third party apps. The Reddit app is HORRIBLE in every way, from the layout to the ads.
Reddit isn’t special- it’s just where everyone is at atm. And why are they at reddit to begin with? It’s because of what it was - community focused, and community driven. Now it’s profit driven, and the community is pissed.
If you’re mad now, just wait till they are publicly traded, and are legally obligated to milk every last dime from their user base to satisfy investors.
As someone in the advertising industry - I felt overwhelmed by ads and served content. I want a place where my content isn’t driven by a corporation trying to manipulate my spending habits… And I want a place where no one is trying to monetize my eyes and brain. That’s why I can’t support reddit. Yeah, I know, companies need money. But back in the olden days, people weren’t the product if that makes sense. Getting everyone on the same app/platform isn’t a mistake. Apps have all sorts of other purposes designed specifically to see what you’re up to, where you are, what else you do when you’re on your phone. Corporate apps watch you. Plain and simple. Getting people off of 3rd party apps and onto a reddit app, while increasing making their users the product, isn’t an accident or coincidence.
I’m reserving all my opinions until after the 30th when all the 3rd party clients die. A lot of people dont even know their client is about to reach end of life because they dont check reddit every day or follow the news close enough.
Usage statistics saw a 15-25% hit in traffic during the protest. It’s still around 8% lower than it was pre protest.
My personal opinion though is that reddit doesnt have to die. It just has to lose it’s status as the front page of the internet. That happens when there is an alternative to reddit that has a critical mass of users to be a rival. I think we are close to that right now with lemmy.
Once it loses it’s status as “front page of the internet” its the beginning of the end for Reddit (although it has already started, perhaps just the prologue or prequelmeme of the end?).
While I can’t see it dying in anytime soon in how many visitors it receives, the general “vibe” and communities of the site will differ I imagine and that’s what matters to me. The end of Apollo was it for me. Like you said, others can do whatever but I’ve left.
All you have to do is follow a link from this page, then drag a bookmark to your bookmarks bar, then go to your reddit user page and click the bookmark. You can even tell it what to replace your stuff with if you want to.
I understand why some people would want to do this, but there’s a lot of stuff there that I would hate to be gone forever.
There’s an old game - I always forget which game it is until it happens again - that I play once every few years, but which always gives me problems when installing or starting for the first time. And every time I looked for a solution, I always ended up in the same Reddit thread; one with a solution that always worked. After I landed there a few times, I even left a comment thanking them for it.
I don’t so much want Reddit gone forever, as I just want for there to be more competition and for users to be spread out. Or, maybe even better, for there to be a searchable archive of Reddit.
What about just saving that revisited post/comment to a personal stash, like in Google Drive or something? There is definitely more competition now, at any rate!
That’s a good idea! I also saw someone else mention they save some pages locally when they find explanations for something niche, in case it disappears, and I think I might start doing the same!
I feel like this thread is a circlejerk. I agree that reddit screwed up bad, but there is a difference between now and the migration from Digg to Reddit. When that migration happened, Reddit was already reasonably sized with active communities. I’m trying to move to Lemmy but I don’t feel that it has the vibrance that Reddit did when Dogg died.
I’d love for this to bring Reddit to heel, but I don’t think Lemmy has the momentum needed just yet. Maybe some other parts of the fedivers does?
I’m going to keep trying to switch to Lemmy but I am skeptical that the momentum is there. Look at how many threads there are per day in the main news community… There isn’t enough buy-in…
Not only lemmy is not as big as reddit back in the migration days. But reddit is also not as small as digg in the migration days.
Were assuming that these migrations follow a set pattern but in reality each iteration has been slower and harder to materialize.
Take also into account that the UX is very different as well and not very casual friendly. Take also into account that in a span of a few hours a gigantic part of the community lost access to some of the biggest communities out of the blue because beehaw defederated world (it’s their right and choice but the UX impact still exists) . So some people might even be like “Yeah fuck this, I’ll just go back to my tried and true subreddit interface” others will be like "Why do I bother posting content in X community if I might lose access to it later on if someone decides to defederate? "
Lemmy is pretty awesome and I’m liking it here. But to think we’re the “silent minority” of reddit is just not true. Vast majority a of casual users are like " why do you use a 3rd party app of there’s a reddit app and it’s OK…? "
I know it’s the name of the little alien, and it’s cute and all, but I’ll never be able to read that name and not think of bone-crushing Amazonian snoo-snoo from Futurama.
The real sub closings and mass exodus from Reddit will most likely begin after the end of the month, when significant and popular 3rd party apps like Sync and Apollo will be shut down.
I deleted RIF on Monday and went to Reddit today via mobile and it was such a pain in the ass as soon as I shut it off I instinctively hit the Jerboa icon (I intentionally put it where RIF was on my homescreen).
Also the Jerboa app is getting better almost daily.
Running the Memmy update today with dark mode and I had moments where my brain thought I was scrolling through Apollo. Gonna be very happy with the app if it continues down this route.
The official reddit app has actually made significant improvements to their mod tools in the last month, but holy fuck, it should not have taken this long. It still has a long way to go, and the app as a whole sucks balls. But I’m not planning on modding any longer, so, I don’t really care any more, I guess.
I wish Lemmur was still being developed. It looked pretty clean and was built on Flutter, but the devs stopped working on it in February due to lack of interest and political differences (I guess referring to the tankie Lemmy devs). I was thinking of making my own Lemmy app with Flutter for fun. If I do, I’ll probably write the UI myself but fork and use the dart API library from Lemmur for the backend stuff. Jerboa is nice, but I’d prefer more of a native Android looking app, kinda like Sync.
Same brother. Same. I’m actually surprised how good the Jerboa app works. I thought it be way crappy since everything now is scrambling to get away from reddit and catching mass exoduses is a hard thing to do. But it’s smooth as soft serve ice cream. I think that’s why Lemmy might work. It’s not a single break, it’s more like an ABS and it’s kinda magical (to me) how you can go and discover new communities. If one instance breaks you can always go to another one and it works almost the same atleast on a technical level.
Today I logged in on my trash account to see what’s going on. On r/gaming there was a really interesting conversation about the protest. Seems to me that there is no shortage of people who merely see the protest as an inconvenience. Many of them don’t even see any issues with the default reddit app. It’s sad that there are so many people like that.
Well, they seem to like the ad infested reddit, so let them stay there.
This could cause more of a Reddit userbase fork than an actual full exodus which could be a good thing for us.
Having the ex-reddit users that were willing to stand up and leave/ flip off Reddit all in one place seems like a pretty cool community to be a part of.
Just noticed that r/tifu had a pretty good summary too: “ Without effective tools (which Reddit has frequently promised and then failed to deliver), moderators cannot combat spammers, bad actors, or the entities who enable either, and without the freedom to choose how and where they access Reddit, many contributors will simply leave. Rather than hosting creativity and in-depth discourse, the platform will soon feature only recycled content, bot-driven activity, and an ever-dwindling number of well-informed visitors. The very elements which differentiate Reddit – the foundations that draw its audience – will be eliminated, reducing the site to another dead cog in the Ennui Engine.”
In other words, people who actually create quality content will be gone. I wonder if the remaining people don’t mind the bot spam and reposts. If they really don’t, then Reddit can just milk them for ad money forever, and I guess this is the plan. However, if people do mind, then ad revenue will begin to decline as more and more subs begin to be filled with trash.
Yea the past few days I saw posts about the biggest influx is coming today at the start of the blackout, but I gotta say most people are fine with reddit if they get to use their 3PA. I think when some shut down there might be a bit more people comming opposed to the last few days
Agreed. I’ve still been checking Apollo everyday out of habit. Once July 1st hits, Apollo is getting deleted off my phone and then I don’t really see myself using Reddit much.
I read that the Sync app was being shut down at the end of the month, then the blackouts started and I just thought Fuck it and set Sync to 0 minutes screen time on my phone while I set up Lemmy. I’m liking it so far just needs more users
I installed Jerboa and put it where Sync used to be and so far the transition has been pretty easy.
I really refuse to use Reddit on my phone using anything other than Sync so it’s an easy decision there. Will probably still browse Reddit on my desktop though since at least there I’ve got old.reddit with RES to make the site useable.
Yea I wanna see if any are going to be deleted if its possible. That would be a interesting metric. Because if they arent listening to the black out I think they might start to listen if dubs get permanently deleted and A LOT of their content dissapears
I think back to this article quite a bit, lately. The basic idea is that social media sites seem, by the numbers, to be doing fine, and then they abruptly collapse. The trick is that when the people who create high engagement - people who make posts that make people super happy or angry or whatever, as long as they are feeling something and therefor getting engaged - when those people start to post less because they’re spending some of their energy on some other new site, the old one gets kinda hollowed out. It’s not obvious it’s dying until it’s dead.
I don’t know if reddit is done for, but I can say that lemmy and mastodon are feeling a lot more fleshed out, lately, compared to past waves of people coming from twitter. It feels like turning a corner, or crossing a critical mass threshold; it’s getting easier to stay engaged and not feel the need to check the old giant sites.
I’ve loked at my front page a few times, and man, it’s pathetic. Literally just a bunch of useless askreddit and AITA threads. It’s basically quora lol.
I spend about 2 days gathering communities that I want to sub for and make sure they are subbed. Then starting yesterday I just need to click the subscribe tab and switch to “New” and there is usually ~10 new posts every 2 hours. I don’t even visit the “All” or “local” tabs anymore. If I run into something I feel not enough, I will just search for the community instead of waiting for them to pop up in “All”.
I feel like that entirely depends on the subreddits you’re subscribed to. For me I have an /r/WTF post at 13, and then not another default sub until… an /r/AdviceAnimals post at 47.
While I love Lemmy and will continue to contribute to it. My reddit experience feels very much the same as it always has. The key was to abandon most of the large subs a long time ago.
The repost bots are becoming a massive problem on the front page as well. Used to just be Gallowboob, now it’s hundreds of bots endlessly reposting TikToks or Twitter screenshots and regurgitating comments. Hoping the application process on this site helps to mitigate that.
I wanted to insult you and swear a bit as a bit of a funny take on driving engagement…but it’s mostly just so darn nice here that I can’t bring myself to roll around in the gutter.
His unethical behavior is why I’d want him out as an investor. His decisions are directly harming Reddit’s reputation and damaging the IPO when it happens. The point is to increase value, not damage it. He must really think that the revenue syphoned by third party apps is worth all this.
At this point, with the way he has behaved and things he said, I am convinced that this was just an effort to shut Reddit down. There have been a lot of dissenting voices on there, just like on Twitter, and they cannot control this content as easily. So they send in Musk and this other clown to run these companies to the ground and make everyone flee, then they can claim the only people that are left on these platforms are the extreme crazies. Then the general public will no longer take things said on these platforms seriously. We have been watching this systematic effort to silence free voices everywhere, this is just another example. I would not be surprised if they take this time to permanently shut down sub-reddits that doesn’t agree the main narrative we are being given.
If you listen to Behind the Bastards, they have a fantastic episode on I think Sam Zell buying and making small town newspapers terrible, right before the 2008 election. The hypothesis is that Elon Musk is doing the same thing, and I find it hard not to include prepperdipshit spez in that sort of ilk.
Please check out behindthebastards@lemmy.blahaj.zone if you are a listener.
Can you elaborate a little more? If I were an investor in reddit, my primary concern would be whether the blackout was actually impacting revenue. If the revenue is flat, then the blackout is just noise and things will return to normal soon.
Impact on revenue could take months, if not years, to materialize. Most redditors will probably stick around for the time being, but if content posters / moderators leave the ship, the site will eventually die.
If I were him, I’d be looking at account deletions (especially from mods), number of new posts/comments, etc.
It also tells you that, depsite all the subs that blacked out, total comments posted dropped by something trivial – like 10%.
Admittedly, if Lemmy took that 10%, it would be a coup for federated services. But it looks like Lemmy took less than 1% of reddits total traffic during the blackout.
This is a great resource, thank you! Interesting to like that there was an impact over the past 2 days, but it looks like it’s going back up to normal today. I guess we need to wait until the end of the month to see what happens with apps shutting down and subs continuing/going back to blackouts. Hopefully this wasn’t just a one time, 2-day reduction in traffic.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@beehaw.org
Rumors, happenings, and innovations in the technology sphere. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
No mention of alternatives in the article :(
It would’ve been very powerful if there was a remote consensus on where to setup shop during/after the blackouts rather than framing them as a wholly temporary thing. I completely understand that that would’ve been tough, but imagine if Lemmy/Beehaw/whatever else was mentioned in all of the Subreddit messages about closures.
It’s rarely talked about, frustratingly. I didn’t find Beehaw through articles or suggestions from people online, which I should’ve been able to do - I just found it because I have a friend into the fediverse space. Pure luck.
Imo the creators of third party apps should be talking about moving to alternatives (not moving their own apps, if they can’t, but just being voices for it).
to be fair, reddit strung them along and made them think it was all smooth sailing until about last week. The devs have to figure out what they even plan to do before they can start announcing plans. And there aren’t any real fully developed apps yet from what I can tell. I think, given some time, these developers may move their apps over or create new apps
I’m liking the Jerboa app. It feels kind of like RiF when I set up all the themes and everything.
Same, it definitely suits me just fine. I don’t see a reason to go back, this wasn’t a lifeboat for me it was just a legitimate transfer.
Same , feels like a earlier version of Reddit is fun from about a decade ago.
There is a mention of the tracker though and the tracker has a link to lemmy :D it’ll get anyone who’s interested in how many sites are down (its not perfect but its something)
I spent a few hours manually deleting all my posts in my subreddit this morning, and changing the name to Deleted. So no going back for me now ;-)
Apart from the attitude, it is just amazing that there was no option for me to just delete my (their) subreddit, even though I’m the creator/owner. I anyway do believe more in the decentralised federated model of social networking.
I had a small subreddit, I just set it to private, removed all the other mods and then removed myself as mod. fuck reddit
What happen next is we move on to this better platform
Absolutely, even without all the reddit drama a decentralised version clearly seems to be the smartest way to go. Reddit is it’s community and I think the ceo lost sight of that.
Many subs are already opening up again sadly.
The subs going dark should have only been half of the protest. Users should have also stayed away from the site but I don’t think that was really coordinated.
The number of new posts didn’t drop much, the comments dropped a bit more but only by like 20%, which isn’t a lot given the amount of subs that went dark. Reddit doesn’t care about subs, they care about users and it seems engagement was still pretty high.
The next protest should be to all users to stop using the site. Drop the users and they’ll start to listen.
all the subs I liked were dark anyways so opening my app showed super old posts that were cached or blackout notices. Couldn’t go back of I tried
Yeah when the blackout started I disabled my Reddit app and haven’t been back there once since. We need more people doing this.
I went back to post on the “We’re back from the Blackout” posts to go let them know about the new communities that were started up here.
Indeed. Users should have joined in. I did my part at least, I haven’t used the site in days and I’ve also removed all of my comments and submissions.
I tried to do my part and heavily restricted my visits to the site. I checked the state of my feed and user profiles a select few times but always left almost immediately.
I even redirected my reddit browser bookmark to a local website which acted as a warning wall, just to stop me from my subconsciously opening and browsing the site.
I did similar, I swapped my shortcuts/apps for ones going to Lemmy. The muscle memory has worked in my favour.
I think a non-insubstantial amount of the comment activity was bots to be fair.
So, a substantial amount? :D
Medium-substantial. Midstantial?
I think this is true but I think it has always been the case. The question is were there more bots than usual and I’m unconvinced there was.
Honest question, (I don’t expect you to know) how many of those were some form of bot?
Nobody really knows, but I personally don’t think there were any more bots on Monday than there was a week earlier. It’s a nice story that users dropped with the subs going dark, but I think it might be wishful thinking on our part. To my knowledge there’s zero evidence to suggest that they were mostly bots.
The submissions remaining steady while comments dropped off a cliff is eyebrow raising, however given how much the site struggled to handle so many private subs from a technical perspective, I strongly suspect reddit didn’t really do much ahead of the blackout. I think the steady submissions compared to the decreased comments tell us more about an average day of reddit how many submissions are bot submitted than it tells us about a change in bot behavior that day.
Before asking people to leave, subs creator should create similar communities on Lemmy
Exactly this. A long term blackout, especially a user blackout, is not feasible without a replacement place to go to.
leaving this in lieu of lemmy gold.
I’m pretty sure none of them thought about that because they’re basically just doing this out of anger. They know it won’t change reddits decision so they want to take it away from all the users that don’t really care about third party apps or mod tools.
It still looks pretty bad (in a good way): https://reddark.untone.uk/
Almost 7,000 subs private, including many of the biggest ones. This is by no means letting up.
True but I see the number of closed subreddits getting lower each time I look at that page.
I think a lot of them are either going to be support subs (like stopdrinking), or they will be subs asking their users what they should do.
The modcoord subreddit is full of support for continued protest
I see major subs like /r/gaming, /r/todayilearned/, /r/space opening up but they’re not asking their users what to do :(
Between this comment and my last at least 25 subs have opened up again. Even while typing this one opened up.
Huh? Last I checked r/gaming was asking for user feedback on whether they should remain closed and the comments look like a resounding “yes”.
When/where?
Here
Still open tho
Yep, we opened up, polled the users, got told to keep it closed, and down went the shutters.
Force openings
Has that been confirmed yet? I saw one person saying it was happening, but the comments below proved they were wrong, and then they scratched out their comment and apologized for spreading false info.
I saw another post with screenshots
You mean this one right? https://famichiki.jp/@Tsutsuku/110537730270070245
Reddit’s CEO is a vile PoS
Oh my, I expected a few thousand to go up after an hour or two but a few big ones are even still down this is great :D
It will be interesting to see where things stand in a few days and whether it’s causing ongoing pain to Reddit. I doubt they will comment until and if there’s a risk of ongoing, widespread blackouts.
undefined> https://reddark.untone.uk/
Would be great if more of those communities moved to the fediverse :')
They are either coming or we’ll have to create them. I see no way forward with Reddit. Anyone who’s for Reddit deserves to stay in that cess pit run by spez now. Bridges have been burnt.
I am just waiting on r/askhistorians. Whatever they do next I will follow.
edit: i should clarify that if they decide to stay on reddit, then probably my reddit user will become an askhistorians lurker.
Honestly it is one of, if not the most, valuable communities on reddit. The fact that it just exists makes me feel a sense of wonder.
It’s the most valuable for me for sure, and I love everything about it. They’re back but currently restricted. I’m really curious about what is their next step.
IIRC, they said they were going to stay restricted so it could be an archive.
Reddit admins are starting to boot mods and force open subs. Total desperation move
Fuck Reddit. Fuck /u/spez.
I think they’re seriously underestimating the work mods did in the bigger subs
Has that been confirmed yet? I saw one person saying it was happening, but the comments below proved they were wrong, and then they scratched out their comment and apologized for spreading false info.
if it’s not happening yet it’s inevitable.
I posted this on a Reddit thread this morning about the effectiveness of the blackouts and what happens next:
Some people have just shut down and will never look back. Some just don’t care and need their Reddit fix. A LOT of comments on these types of threads are Reddit bots/employees trying to run a propaganda campaign to stop the shutdown. Most of the users though (IMO), are probably like me and opened up a Lemmy, Mastodon and Kbin account and are using all of them. Lemmy and Mastodon will continue to grow (2x-3x in the past week) and users will continue to migrate over and spend more time there than here until Reddit feels some pain. Reddit will eventually make some grand gesture like replace the CEO or “compromise” on API pricing, but it will be too late and the glory days of Reddit will officially be over.
The issue is that the momentum to go to other platforms has started. Reddit had their chance to stop it and stay the dominant platform, but the CEO is inexperienced and didn’t know how to handle it. Until a few weeks ago Reddit had no real competition, but Spez fucked up big time and now the blood is in the water. The Fediverse is a great idea and takes social media out of the hands of corporations and puts it back in the hands of the users (does anyone remember IRC?). It didn’t really have a lot of momentum until now, but its got a LOT of press because of Reddit’s fuck up and now it’s going to be a slow juggernaut sweeping not only Reddit’s market, but Twitter (Elon is just as big a fuckup as Spez), and Facebook.
I would bet $20 that this time next year Reddit will be 50% or less of their market, and several other alternatives will be growing faster than we’ve ever seen platforms grow. Alternative platforms already have the formula for a successful project. Reddit did all the experimentation, now the alts just need to copy the look/feel and features to knock Reddit down to the Digg dungeon.
Billionaires seek to control the media and the narrative, but Fediverse is harder to simply buy and control. Profit seeking corporations will always put profit first, and we’ve seen time and time again that it’s the “product people” that make a company great, and the “business people” who kill it. The capitalists will continue to kill long term growth for short term profits, but Fediverse can’t be killed that way. We’ve just seen the beginning of the new internet revolution.
Something this “blackout” caused me to notice as an individual is just how much of my time and attention I was giving away for free for a faceless corporation to monetize. I quit Reddit entirely and, while still visiting Lemmy/a few forums, I’ve noticed my “Doomscrolling” habit is rapidly dying.
I fervently hope this prediction comes true, and the internet becomes a little healthier in the process.
Insightful and hopeful.
I’d love to turn the subreddit into a mere front to funnle new people onto lemmy or another community forum but I doubt the average user would enjoy that very much 😅 I think we will put it up to a vote, we also did one to determin if we should join the protest in the first place
https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/1048
https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/1113
I think once these two issues are solved, the average user really isn’t going to have any problem with lemmy.
They should first add errors messages so people know why there’s an infinite loading icon when registering or signing in
I think you’re going to need to elaborate, or create an issue on the issue tracker yourself.
Fully agree.
I’m not sure I agree. I don’t like those two solutions. They basically try to centralize the platform. I think Lemmy is a little confusing at first, but that’s a UX/UI problem and not necessarily a good enough reason to change underlying features of the platform.
I think a user subscribing to communities across instances is a pretty tough technical challenge and it would be very difficult to manage. How are particular communities decided to be a part of a multi-community? Is it voted on? Is there a mod of the multi-community? If so, that could still lead to bifurcation wherein you now have a multi-community that claims to provide all /c/pokemon content across instances but is potentially missing many viable communities on some instances due to things like moderator in-fighting or moderator preferences.
I like how Lemmy allows for sort of duplicate communities. Reddit already had that issue and people naturally flocked to the communities that had the content that suited them. I think it would behoove Lemmy to stay away from trying to centralize it all.
However, I agree that it is confusing. I think this is a UI/UX challenge which needs to be solved. I don’t have the solution, but I think it’s clear that the app language needs to help users naturally feel comfortable living within an instance and moving across instances.
I am open to suggestions and I am fully happy to be proven wrong. But as a software engineer, the second GitHub issue gave me the heeby-jeebies on a technical front. Seemed a little hairy for a young platform to take on right now. I think there are plenty of other lower hanging fruit id prefer for the community to solve:
All in all though, I feel like Lemmy is totally usable. Actually, the most confusing thing to me was learning that I could see my comments and posts on Mastodon. That threw me through a loop. I still don’t understand Mastodon since the UI - to me - just seems to be random comments. I don’t really have any thread-based context to understand the comments I see on my Mastodon app. So for now I stick to Jerboa.
No, they don’t, I don’t know why you think that, this is really what federation is all about, seamless communication between servers, all they do is make it so that linking to different posts across the fediverse doesn’t log you out, or remove you from your instance unnecessarily
The other one ALLOWS you to categorize subreddits. Neither of these are bad things in any way, and if you don’t like them, you can manually visit other instances, and simply not use the multireddits.
This won’t change anything about that, it’ll just sort them by category
this isn’t worth focusing on right now because: https://github.com/derivator/tafkars/tree/main/tafkars-lemmy
join-lemmy definitely needs an upgrade.
Oh I didn’t know about the Derivator app. That’s awesome! I will contribute if I have the time.
In case you want to go that route: I made a bot that posts links to posts in a list of lemmy communities to a subreddit, optionally with flair and a comment of what is going on, to be run in a fully restricted subreddit (i.e., no comments show up at all, new posts need to be made via lemmy)
Would it be possible to make the bot post the content of the Reddit posts, instead of links to Reddit, via web scraping? That way we could avoid giving traffic and engagement to reddit.
That is great, will look into it!
Steve Huffman (more like Steve Huffspaint) should resign as CEO of Reddit.
i like Steve Huffsglue better.
That won’t change anything. The financial incentives from investors driving this will demand similar policies even if they get redressed in different marketing.
Ya there’s nothing wrong with Huffing men.
Man, it’s sad to see comments about how this isn’t the end of Reddit. I want one of two things: Either to see Reddit straight up die because the communities stayed down, or for them to be forced to relax their API fees. For me personally, Reddit is straight up dead if I cant use old.reddit or Reddit via Apollo / Relay Pro. I need these third party apps. The Reddit app is HORRIBLE in every way, from the layout to the ads.
Reddit isn’t special- it’s just where everyone is at atm. And why are they at reddit to begin with? It’s because of what it was - community focused, and community driven. Now it’s profit driven, and the community is pissed.
If you’re mad now, just wait till they are publicly traded, and are legally obligated to milk every last dime from their user base to satisfy investors.
As someone in the advertising industry - I felt overwhelmed by ads and served content. I want a place where my content isn’t driven by a corporation trying to manipulate my spending habits… And I want a place where no one is trying to monetize my eyes and brain. That’s why I can’t support reddit. Yeah, I know, companies need money. But back in the olden days, people weren’t the product if that makes sense. Getting everyone on the same app/platform isn’t a mistake. Apps have all sorts of other purposes designed specifically to see what you’re up to, where you are, what else you do when you’re on your phone. Corporate apps watch you. Plain and simple. Getting people off of 3rd party apps and onto a reddit app, while increasing making their users the product, isn’t an accident or coincidence.
I’m reserving all my opinions until after the 30th when all the 3rd party clients die. A lot of people dont even know their client is about to reach end of life because they dont check reddit every day or follow the news close enough.
Usage statistics saw a 15-25% hit in traffic during the protest. It’s still around 8% lower than it was pre protest.
My personal opinion though is that reddit doesnt have to die. It just has to lose it’s status as the front page of the internet. That happens when there is an alternative to reddit that has a critical mass of users to be a rival. I think we are close to that right now with lemmy.
Once it loses it’s status as “front page of the internet” its the beginning of the end for Reddit (although it has already started, perhaps just the prologue or prequelmeme of the end?).
Still learning lemmy but I’m liking it so far.
Near a billion active users per month, Reddit isn’t going to die. Doesn’t matter to me what other people do, I’ve left.
Depends on how you define “Active Users”.
Reddit has shitload of spam, bots, and lurkers. Only a very small slice of users actually contribute anything in the form of posts and comments.
While I can’t see it dying in anytime soon in how many visitors it receives, the general “vibe” and communities of the site will differ I imagine and that’s what matters to me. The end of Apollo was it for me. Like you said, others can do whatever but I’ve left.
I replaced all my comments with garbage and deleted my account
https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
All you have to do is follow a link from this page, then drag a bookmark to your bookmarks bar, then go to your reddit user page and click the bookmark. You can even tell it what to replace your stuff with if you want to.
I understand why some people would want to do this, but there’s a lot of stuff there that I would hate to be gone forever.
There’s an old game - I always forget which game it is until it happens again - that I play once every few years, but which always gives me problems when installing or starting for the first time. And every time I looked for a solution, I always ended up in the same Reddit thread; one with a solution that always worked. After I landed there a few times, I even left a comment thanking them for it.
I don’t so much want Reddit gone forever, as I just want for there to be more competition and for users to be spread out. Or, maybe even better, for there to be a searchable archive of Reddit.
I thought the exact same, but when their internal mail leaked i was just “fuck this” and got rid of everything.
was that the bit about all of this blowing over or did i miss something?
You may have missed the bit about the Black Cat ransomware gang making off with 80GB of internal data?
yiiiiikes i definitely did miss that!
What about just saving that revisited post/comment to a personal stash, like in Google Drive or something? There is definitely more competition now, at any rate!
That’s a good idea! I also saw someone else mention they save some pages locally when they find explanations for something niche, in case it disappears, and I think I might start doing the same!
I’ve been noticing this with YouTube videos, too, even that have no overt reason to be removed. I’m now downloading my faves.
I’m getting used it here and Kbin and that’s all it took for me to leave Digg back in the day.
That’s the thing that kills me. There was a time when Digg was the king. Also for a while Slashdot. We left before and we can leave again.
I am liking Lemmy so far.
I feel like this thread is a circlejerk. I agree that reddit screwed up bad, but there is a difference between now and the migration from Digg to Reddit. When that migration happened, Reddit was already reasonably sized with active communities. I’m trying to move to Lemmy but I don’t feel that it has the vibrance that Reddit did when Dogg died.
I’d love for this to bring Reddit to heel, but I don’t think Lemmy has the momentum needed just yet. Maybe some other parts of the fedivers does?
I’m going to keep trying to switch to Lemmy but I am skeptical that the momentum is there. Look at how many threads there are per day in the main news community… There isn’t enough buy-in…
Not only lemmy is not as big as reddit back in the migration days. But reddit is also not as small as digg in the migration days.
Were assuming that these migrations follow a set pattern but in reality each iteration has been slower and harder to materialize.
Take also into account that the UX is very different as well and not very casual friendly. Take also into account that in a span of a few hours a gigantic part of the community lost access to some of the biggest communities out of the blue because beehaw defederated world (it’s their right and choice but the UX impact still exists) . So some people might even be like “Yeah fuck this, I’ll just go back to my tried and true subreddit interface” others will be like "Why do I bother posting content in X community if I might lose access to it later on if someone decides to defederate? "
Lemmy is pretty awesome and I’m liking it here. But to think we’re the “silent minority” of reddit is just not true. Vast majority a of casual users are like " why do you use a 3rd party app of there’s a reddit app and it’s OK…? "
Add a month to the blackout each time Spez refers to Reddit’s employees as “Snoos”
I know it’s the name of the little alien, and it’s cute and all, but I’ll never be able to read that name and not think of bone-crushing Amazonian snoo-snoo from Futurama.
“Femputer sentences them to death… by SNU SNU!”
😦😀😦😀😦😀😦😀
“The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised.”
Can we build an interface for it? And call it a Snoos Button?
The real sub closings and mass exodus from Reddit will most likely begin after the end of the month, when significant and popular 3rd party apps like Sync and Apollo will be shut down.
I deleted RIF on Monday and went to Reddit today via mobile and it was such a pain in the ass as soon as I shut it off I instinctively hit the Jerboa icon (I intentionally put it where RIF was on my homescreen).
Also the Jerboa app is getting better almost daily.
I wish iOS has an app like Jerboa :( Mlem misses so many features unfortunately…
I’ve been using Memmy since it became available yesterday and it looks promising so far. It’s already had about 4 updates just today:
https://testflight.apple.com/join/6jaRU6rD
https://github.com/gkasdorf/memmy/discussions/13
Running the Memmy update today with dark mode and I had moments where my brain thought I was scrolling through Apollo. Gonna be very happy with the app if it continues down this route.
The official reddit app has actually made significant improvements to their mod tools in the last month, but holy fuck, it should not have taken this long. It still has a long way to go, and the app as a whole sucks balls. But I’m not planning on modding any longer, so, I don’t really care any more, I guess.
I wish Lemmur was still being developed. It looked pretty clean and was built on Flutter, but the devs stopped working on it in February due to lack of interest and political differences (I guess referring to the tankie Lemmy devs). I was thinking of making my own Lemmy app with Flutter for fun. If I do, I’ll probably write the UI myself but fork and use the dart API library from Lemmur for the backend stuff. Jerboa is nice, but I’d prefer more of a native Android looking app, kinda like Sync.
making the ui more like googles material style you mean? for that flutter would be a great option
Same brother. Same. I’m actually surprised how good the Jerboa app works. I thought it be way crappy since everything now is scrambling to get away from reddit and catching mass exoduses is a hard thing to do. But it’s smooth as soft serve ice cream. I think that’s why Lemmy might work. It’s not a single break, it’s more like an ABS and it’s kinda magical (to me) how you can go and discover new communities. If one instance breaks you can always go to another one and it works almost the same atleast on a technical level.
Today I logged in on my trash account to see what’s going on. On r/gaming there was a really interesting conversation about the protest. Seems to me that there is no shortage of people who merely see the protest as an inconvenience. Many of them don’t even see any issues with the default reddit app. It’s sad that there are so many people like that.
Well, they seem to like the ad infested reddit, so let them stay there.
Yeah, they can have it then. I’m done with that site.
This could cause more of a Reddit userbase fork than an actual full exodus which could be a good thing for us.
Having the ex-reddit users that were willing to stand up and leave/ flip off Reddit all in one place seems like a pretty cool community to be a part of.
Just noticed that r/tifu had a pretty good summary too: “ Without effective tools (which Reddit has frequently promised and then failed to deliver), moderators cannot combat spammers, bad actors, or the entities who enable either, and without the freedom to choose how and where they access Reddit, many contributors will simply leave. Rather than hosting creativity and in-depth discourse, the platform will soon feature only recycled content, bot-driven activity, and an ever-dwindling number of well-informed visitors. The very elements which differentiate Reddit – the foundations that draw its audience – will be eliminated, reducing the site to another dead cog in the Ennui Engine.”
In other words, people who actually create quality content will be gone. I wonder if the remaining people don’t mind the bot spam and reposts. If they really don’t, then Reddit can just milk them for ad money forever, and I guess this is the plan. However, if people do mind, then ad revenue will begin to decline as more and more subs begin to be filled with trash.
Yea the past few days I saw posts about the biggest influx is coming today at the start of the blackout, but I gotta say most people are fine with reddit if they get to use their 3PA. I think when some shut down there might be a bit more people comming opposed to the last few days
I’m here and plan a complete exit from reddit at end of June. I love my 3PA and won’t continue without it.
Agreed. I’ve still been checking Apollo everyday out of habit. Once July 1st hits, Apollo is getting deleted off my phone and then I don’t really see myself using Reddit much.
You need to pull the bandaid off. I started yesterday and replaced Apollo with Mlem and I’m not looking back.
I read that the Sync app was being shut down at the end of the month, then the blackouts started and I just thought Fuck it and set Sync to 0 minutes screen time on my phone while I set up Lemmy. I’m liking it so far just needs more users
I installed Jerboa and put it where Sync used to be and so far the transition has been pretty easy.
I really refuse to use Reddit on my phone using anything other than Sync so it’s an easy decision there. Will probably still browse Reddit on my desktop though since at least there I’ve got old.reddit with RES to make the site useable.
Yea I wanna see if any are going to be deleted if its possible. That would be a interesting metric. Because if they arent listening to the black out I think they might start to listen if dubs get permanently deleted and A LOT of their content dissapears
I remember back at Digg and MySpace. Same vibe.
“This will blow over.”
It always blows over until it doesn’t. Only take once.
I think back to this article quite a bit, lately. The basic idea is that social media sites seem, by the numbers, to be doing fine, and then they abruptly collapse. The trick is that when the people who create high engagement - people who make posts that make people super happy or angry or whatever, as long as they are feeling something and therefor getting engaged - when those people start to post less because they’re spending some of their energy on some other new site, the old one gets kinda hollowed out. It’s not obvious it’s dying until it’s dead.
I don’t know if reddit is done for, but I can say that lemmy and mastodon are feeling a lot more fleshed out, lately, compared to past waves of people coming from twitter. It feels like turning a corner, or crossing a critical mass threshold; it’s getting easier to stay engaged and not feel the need to check the old giant sites.
I’ve loked at my front page a few times, and man, it’s pathetic. Literally just a bunch of useless askreddit and AITA threads. It’s basically quora lol.
I spend about 2 days gathering communities that I want to sub for and make sure they are subbed. Then starting yesterday I just need to click the subscribe tab and switch to “New” and there is usually ~10 new posts every 2 hours. I don’t even visit the “All” or “local” tabs anymore. If I run into something I feel not enough, I will just search for the community instead of waiting for them to pop up in “All”.
I bet NSFW fans won’t notice anything.
I feel like that entirely depends on the subreddits you’re subscribed to. For me I have an /r/WTF post at 13, and then not another default sub until… an /r/AdviceAnimals post at 47.
While I love Lemmy and will continue to contribute to it. My reddit experience feels very much the same as it always has. The key was to abandon most of the large subs a long time ago.
The repost bots are becoming a massive problem on the front page as well. Used to just be Gallowboob, now it’s hundreds of bots endlessly reposting TikToks or Twitter screenshots and regurgitating comments. Hoping the application process on this site helps to mitigate that.
You‘re saying you don’t like seeing the same meme get posted 8 times in the span of an hour every few days?
I wanted to insult you and swear a bit as a bit of a funny take on driving engagement…but it’s mostly just so darn nice here that I can’t bring myself to roll around in the gutter.
Have an upvote and be happy instead.
I fart in your general direction, your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries! :P
It’s funny how these social companies get huge and think they are irreplaceable… when all of them started as a replacement for something else.
Once you think you’re too big to fail? That’s when ya trip.
Slammed gate syndrome
So two-day revenue change is his preferred metric? If I were a Reddit investor, I wouldn’t want this guy as a CEO…
Two days ago they were, as of his words “not profiting”, and suddenly a blackout doesn’t affect them? What a clown.
His unethical behavior is why I’d want him out as an investor. His decisions are directly harming Reddit’s reputation and damaging the IPO when it happens. The point is to increase value, not damage it. He must really think that the revenue syphoned by third party apps is worth all this.
At this point, with the way he has behaved and things he said, I am convinced that this was just an effort to shut Reddit down. There have been a lot of dissenting voices on there, just like on Twitter, and they cannot control this content as easily. So they send in Musk and this other clown to run these companies to the ground and make everyone flee, then they can claim the only people that are left on these platforms are the extreme crazies. Then the general public will no longer take things said on these platforms seriously. We have been watching this systematic effort to silence free voices everywhere, this is just another example. I would not be surprised if they take this time to permanently shut down sub-reddits that doesn’t agree the main narrative we are being given.
That’s fine. We make a new place.
That’s the beauty of the internet (and similarly, America). We just find a space to talk.
If you listen to Behind the Bastards, they have a fantastic episode on I think Sam Zell buying and making small town newspapers terrible, right before the 2008 election. The hypothesis is that Elon Musk is doing the same thing, and I find it hard not to include prepperdipshit spez in that sort of ilk.
Please check out behindthebastards@lemmy.blahaj.zone if you are a listener.
Can you elaborate a little more? If I were an investor in reddit, my primary concern would be whether the blackout was actually impacting revenue. If the revenue is flat, then the blackout is just noise and things will return to normal soon.
Impact on revenue could take months, if not years, to materialize. Most redditors will probably stick around for the time being, but if content posters / moderators leave the ship, the site will eventually die.
If I were him, I’d be looking at account deletions (especially from mods), number of new posts/comments, etc.
Exactly. Ain’t no way you can get an accurate view from 2 day. Though I don’t think he really cares as long as it doesn’t affect the IPO.
Those are a great points, especially about the mods- they are a key piece of the future-of-reddit puzzle. Thank you!
I think he means that long term effects are the real concern, not the effects of two day revenue
This site has a graph that shows how many subs are private: https://blackout.photon-reddit.com/
I find it a good way to see how the situation is evolving as a whole.
It also tells you that, depsite all the subs that blacked out, total comments posted dropped by something trivial – like 10%.
Admittedly, if Lemmy took that 10%, it would be a coup for federated services. But it looks like Lemmy took less than 1% of reddits total traffic during the blackout.
This is a great resource, thank you! Interesting to like that there was an impact over the past 2 days, but it looks like it’s going back up to normal today. I guess we need to wait until the end of the month to see what happens with apps shutting down and subs continuing/going back to blackouts. Hopefully this wasn’t just a one time, 2-day reduction in traffic.